Talk:Language Issues
This Talk page was moved to the Forums for archive purposes. Made it I made it clear that theres a lot of opinion in this department. That SHOULD explain a lot of this article. I'm not going to add it yet, it properly needs cleaning up first anyway, I'll add it tomorrow after time to make adjustments has been met. Besides, I'm curious to see if anyone has any opinions for or against this article. One-Winged Hawk 10:04, December 5, 2010 (UTC) :I haven't read the whole article yet, but the title "Japanese Vs English" sounds a bit inflammatory to me. I understand you want to overturn the fixed image of English vocaloids, but I don't know why we have to compare English and Japanese inclusively and give another stereotypes to them comprehensively like "The westerns are like this, and the Japaneses are like that". And when we try to compare something without showing objective sources, it's not easy for anyone to avoid the subjectivity of judgments and I think some readers would feel the contents are based on speculations. At least if I'm just a reader, I would feel that way.(I'm not saying what you wrote on the article is wrong and I know you achieved this article in good faith). Blacksaingrain 11:00, December 5, 2010 (UTC) ::Actually this wasn't overturn anything, we had an overflow of information on the mythbusters page, and I was trying to house some of it elsewhere. I've noted your points though, I'll think about the title. Bunai and I were actually discussing the problems with this page, I gave it a shot anyway to see how it goes. The problem is its mostly option expressing and Bunai was the one who pointed this out. Well I didn't add it to the main fandom template and I'm glad I didn't. I'll slap the WIP template on it and sleep on it. One-Winged Hawk 13:20, December 5, 2010 (UTC) ::I temporary put the title as "Language Issues" until someone comes up with a better title. I'm trying to think up a better way of adressing the article, but it needs a little time. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 13:26, December 5, 2010 (UTC) Ah, no need to hurry. Yeah, I’ve read the talkpage and knew this article is a part of it. Please don’t think I’m complaining about achieving the page itself. Umm, how about “Japanese and English Vocaloids”? Because the contents are not about the language difference. (I wish I could think of something better…) I’m going through the mythbuster page right now anyway Blacksaingrain 14:15, December 5, 2010 (UTC) :That is what I put during the first typing of Vocaloid page and for Mythbusters. I really really don't like the use of "Vs". I would prefer "and" or "&". That gives me the impression that the subject will be about both programs and their benefits and flaws, and not some kind of 'make it look good' competition. -- Bunai82 (talk) 18:05, December 5, 2010 (UTC) ::I think "Vs" came out of the on going debate on the level of capabities of the engloids and the number of arguments recently. On VO forums, theres a odd habbit here of there of adressing it as "this Vs that" whenever it comes up. I'll give the page a name change tomorrow and see how it goes. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 23:30, December 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Alrighty -- Bunai82 (talk) 01:25, December 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::Were the mythbuster article and this made for making rebuttal statements against or giving conclusions to what have been discussed on VO forums or among fandom? Actually, I'm asking this, because most of them are written in the absence of proof. To buster myths, one needs to bring rebutting evidences/sources, I think. (I'll try to find reliable sources, but I don't think all of them can be backed by fact)Blacksaingrain 08:10, December 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::It was common misconceptions, most were provable. I note in the fewer cases we can't adress the issues with proof simply because the fandom has this happen of discussing things then NOT WRITING IT DOWN OFFICALLY. In fact this has been my biggest crib with this fandom, facts become common but are never written down. >_<' One-Winged Hawk 08:17, December 6, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, I know there're many misconceptions as I often receive them on my yt channel. Well, besides that, generally people can write anything; rumours, speculations, reviews, fanons or whatever on such forums or blogs. They're places members can write whatever they want and that's what they are. But wiki has to be reliable. If wiki editors write information without evidence like them, how can readers judge if it's right/official and how can they make contrarians believe it's true? If most are provable, editors should put references to show where they get the information and what they write are not just personal observations at least. Also we should refrain from writing something we can't confirm with good sources cause it would make wiki mark down on credibility.Blacksaingrain 09:51, December 6, 2010 (UTC) :So far the established resources are; Vocaloidism, VCC, the studios themselves, Engloids blog (appears to be down) and what goes on in some parts of VO forums. Thats pretty much where I go to. I don't tend to rely on newspaper clippings on the wikia beyond the New York times material up and used commonly at wikipedia on its vocaloid article as most are still beginning to accept that Miku exists, Vocaloid is barely known to them. One-Winged Hawk 11:11, December 6, 2010 (UTC) ::I see. Okay, then will you put those sources as possible when you write articles from next time? Even if they're blogs or communities, it's still better than nothing. Those would tell readers what articles are based on and let editors to improve articles or find another sources if nessesary. Yeah, really helpful. And I don't like to use "citation needed" many times.Blacksaingrain 11:45, December 6, 2010 (UTC) :::I must admit I get lazy, take for instance the Sweet Ann accent reference, its on her main page but whenever I mention it elsewhere on the wikia, I just don't reference it. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 14:19, December 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::I don't think you're lazy at all. Just they're needed as every article is independent, that's all.Blacksaingrain 06:06, December 9, 2010 (UTC) :::::Well, I beg to differe on that considering I should be working on this page and I've reached a dead end I'm trying to get around and I keep forgetting to work on it. I'll figure something out eventually here, but right now its getting the idea together how to fix this. I really want this to be a page explaining how one language works against another, but not like the phonemes page. I also want to take a moment to clear up all the misconceptions on language that the fandom has. Its making it work... One-Winged Hawk 15:29, December 9, 2010 (UTC) I think I've cracked it... ... I found a source of information for finishing this page off. I found a page on wikipedia where someone has attempted to explain the structure of the language, however they haven't finished. Out of respect I've got to rewrite their words. This isn't my research I'll admit that, and its a fluke I found their page. *So heres the research credit Why haven't they put this on the main wikipedia page though, I don't know, I guess theyw ere attempting to translate and stopped on the last paragraph. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 17:30, January 4, 2011 (UTC) :Bit of a clean up at the article, I'm not quite convinced its ready to be attached to the fandom template yet, but its getting there. The fan reaction is moved down the page, I'm not sure about that section entirely. One-Winged Hawk 19:16, January 4, 2011 (UTC) How do things look now? One-Winged Hawk 20:08, January 4, 2011 (UTC) Done? So guys... Do you think this is okay to take off of WIP yet? There are references now. One-Winged Hawk 12:52, January 8, 2011 (UTC) Well... Times are improving slowly, and this page is getting a little dated. I'm going to merge its more useful aspects with Phonetics page so all the language related issues are in one place. I'm not going to move the stuff set that was more "Different language = different approach", thats going. I am prob. going to retire the tutorials navigational template and move over the more useful tutorial related articles onto "nav main" and just retire the ones that didn't get off their feet. I had originally planned a lot more stuff but just didn't get around to it. I'm not gonna touch the fan mades but I will add the "offical" ones to it prob. as well tomorrow. One-Winged Hawk 22:19, May 25, 2011 (UTC) :scrap the idea of removing the template, Bunai just raised a point on Nav main. I'll still sort out whats what with this page tomorrow. One-Winged Hawk 22:22, May 25, 2011 (UTC) Updates Well, its time to start thinking about updating this page. As of SeeU, theres some resistance towards new languages. *sigh* this will never end. -_-' One-Winged Hawk 15:41, September 15, 2011 (UTC)